Joanna: So what�s your name?

MM: You know my name. (laughs)

Joanna: Ok. Do you watch porn?

MM: Um, I�m not a big porn watcher, but every now and then I�ll have the guilty pleasure of joggling between Spectrovision porno movies. Like last night for example, I was trying to go to bed, but then I ordered one porno, and it was kind of caught between scenes, so I ordered another one, and I was going back and forth.

Joanna: Why is it a guilty pleasure?

MM: I�m not a big fan of porn because I like mystery a little bit more. I like what you don�t see more than what you see. The allure of the unknown is more arousing to me. And sometimes porn is just too revealing. I�m not against liking porn. As a kid I always used to steal my grandfather�s porno magazines. I have a song on my new record called �Slut Garden,� and it�s kind of about, leaving one relationship and going to another, and there�s a line that goes �I memorized the lines to the porno movies.� And that�s the new religion to me. My new record is very sexually related, but I�m pretty shy when it comes to stuff like that.

Joanna: Well everyone kinda is, you know?

MM: Yeah, but people expect me to be a certain way. They expect me to be very forward and very outgoing.

Joanna: Do you think that you�ve created that image for yourself though?

MM: I have. But in my performance I�m able to do things that I can�t do in my normal life. Like, I can�t talk to people, I can�t relate to people, I can�t express myself or open up, so I do it onstage. So I�m not a different person onstage, it�s just a different side of me.

Joanna: A lot of my website tries to focus on the feminist aspects of pornography, and how it can be empowering.

MM: I totally agree. If I was a girl, I would do everything from stripping to pornography, because I think the beauty of, the power of being a woman, is controlling men.

Joanna: Do you think that women do have control over men?

MM: Well, women are afraid to, because feminism has grossly misinterpreted the power of women for the most part. And I think, from what I know of you, that the idea of feminism would be, if I was a woman and I was a feminist, I would wear high heels, stockings, red lipstick, and I would really represent the archetype of a woman that is represented in pin-ups; Marilyn Monroe or Betty Paige, because that�s what controls men. I�d do that instead of trying to be like a man. Trying to be like a man is not being like a woman. I think that�s where it�s really misconstrued. When I was friends with Anton Lavey before he died, I�d have long conversations with him. And none of them were about the devil or God. They were all about women. He would tell me stories about when he knew Marilyn Monroe, when he dated Jane Mansfield. He would talk about women all the time. And we would talk about the power of women over men, and the archetypes, and what certain things represent and why they control us. As a kid, I remember the high heels and the stockings of the woman who was the mom, or the person in charge in Tom & Jerry. You never saw her face. You only heard her voice and saw her high heels and her stockings. And I think that really affected me, because now I have a fetish over stockings. I have a fetish over high heels, and red lipstick and things like that. And that is very powerful because if I was a woman, I would use that. And as it turns out as a man I use that, too. (laughs)

Joanna: Do you think you�ve made other men think about that stuff?

MM: Who knows. When I was a kid I thought my grandfather was a freak and a pervert because he got caught wearing lingerie underneath his clothes. He was a truck driver. But now I realize that people look at him the same way they look at me, and I don�t think he was a freak anymore. He was just repressed. For me it�s about breaking the mold of what is the status quo.

Joanna: OK. I write a lot of fiction, which is why I�m asking you this. But I read your biography, and a lot of it was really crazy, I don�t know if it was true, untrue, or just written to provoke a reaction?

MM: I didn�t want to write a book, but I was approached, and I was at a point in my career when everyone wanted to know why I do what I do. And I think that art should be a question mark. It�s not an answer. It�s supposed to make people find an answer. So instead of explaining or defining what I do, I decided to explain myself. What I do is defending who I am, so there�s no reason to explain it. I figured if I told the story of who I am and where I came from, people could make their own judgments. And like I said, it wasn�t something that I really wanted to do, but a lot of people approached me so I did it. And I�m glad I did it.

Joanna: Was it difficult to go beyond the image you project yourself as, and let people know a little more about you?

MM: You�ve gotta step out of yourself to the point where you have to look at yourself as a fictional character. So I had to look at myself and think how to make the character have an arc and a story. And I had to look at myself and think, �Well what is the arc of my story?� So it really made me reevaluate why I do what I do and who I am.

Joanna: Why do you do what you do?

MM: I still don�t know. And I don�t think I wanna know. I try and make music or art so people can feel like they know me more, but not so they can understand me more. Because I�m an abstract idea. If anyone ever understands me in a universal way, then it goes against what I represent, because I�m meant to make people question. I�m not really meant to be understood. That�s the simplest way of looking at it. I�m exactly like everybody else, and that�s why people get so extreme about me, because I represent these diametrically opposed opposites. People get mad because they see themselves in me. People get excited because they see themselves in me.

Joanna: I interview a lot of porn stars for the website because I think it's kind of important�

MM: I�ve dated two porn stars but I�ve never watched any of their movies.

Joanna: Really? As a woman in the industry I kind of want to de-objectify women who have become objectified. Do you feel that as a musician you get objectified in kind of the same way? Do you find that people don�t know you but still view you as a kind of object?

MM: I think I can relate to it in a certain way, and I guess that�s what has attracted me to it. I had a big crush and then a somewhat substantial relationship with Traci Lords for a short period of time. But I�ve never really watched any of the movies because I was attached to the person and not whatever the person did.

Joanna: OK. So when I was like, a Freshman and Sophomore in high school, I knew kids that would do things like carve your name into their arms and kind of almost deified you. Did you know that there would be a response like that when you became famous, or did you intend for it to happen?

MM: I never intended to create that sort of response, but because what I do is so extreme and so real, that�s what sets it apart from everything, and that�s why people can�t justify me. I�m the only person on the Ozzfest who gets banned in Buffalo, New York. But I think it�s a good thing because I represent a new kind of expression where people know�

Joanna: Do you think it�s a real expression though?

MM: It is because people say, �Marilyn Manson is just an act.� But even if it�s an act, you have to realize that the person who is the actor, they have to live through it. So it doesn�t matter what their intentions are. Because my intentions are purely artistic and very personal. You have to respect the fact that I have to survive through that, and what I do is never apologetic or self-explanatory and that�s why people don�t ever want to come to terms with it. That�s why I�m not like� Madonna. I�m not on the same level as that. I�m infamous more than I am famous, because I�m well-known for what I represent. I�m not plied to my music. My aesthetic goes beyond that. That�s why I do art and music. Marilyn Manson has never been about just one thing. I do not have to exist within the confines of a CD. You can�t own me, and people aren�t used to that, and that�s why so many people hate me and so many people love me, because it is pure in that way. I could be as fake as there is. I mean, the name Marilyn Manson is comprised of two fake names. Marilyn Monroe wasn�t her real name and Charles Manson was not his real name. And that�s why I chose the two. It�s so fake that it�s real. Everything I say is a lie, and therefore by default, I am more honest than everyone else.

Joanna: What bands that are around today can you appreciate for expressing some sort of artistic idea?

MM: I haven�t had a chance to go to a lot of shows, but I really enjoyed the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. I don�t really listen to anything that�s even remotely close to what I do. I like a lot of girl singers. I like a lot of things that aren�t guitar bands. I did sort of a collaboration with Keith from Prodigy.

Joanna: Do you know who the Dillinger Escape Plan is?

MM: I�ve heard of them.

Joanna: I think you�d like them.

MM: What else� I mentioned the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, a Slits influenced band. I mean, all the electroclash stuff I liked 4 or 5 years ago. When I had my own label I was going to sign Peaches. I became friends with her and she�s really cool. But I really disliked having a record label. I don�t like art and commerce together. I never again want to be on the other side, because you have to redefine what art is with money and I don�t like it. That�s why I quit having a label.

Joanna: Do you think that you�re more extreme now, or more tame now?

MM: I�m extreme in a different way. I�ve taken the attitude that I began with, and the knowledge I gained along the way, and combined the two.

Joanna: So what�s in the future for your musical career?

MM: Well this new record is the future. So many people have said, �I liked how you were in Bowling for Columbine��

Joanna: Are you friends with Michael Moore?

MM: No not really, I can�t even say that I agree with the movie as whole because it�s almost too political for me. I was given every opportunity possible to make myself look like an asshole, but I didn�t because I�m not an asshole.

Joanna: You were really the only person in the movie who didn�t look like an asshole.

MM: That�s a sad thing for the rest of the world. I was saying and doing what I�ve always said and done, so if the rest of the world looks that dumb it�s really depressing. So for me, it�s more about being a dandy. Being an artist, like Oscar Wilde and all these other people. And I�m persecuted in the same way. But I�m not jaded, and it�s hard not to be. Right now, I got to make a record that I loved. I got to do a tour that I loved, and that�s what success is.